by Libba Bray
Reading
Read entire novel for class on Tuesday, April 22
Commenting
1st comment on/by April 21
2nd comment on/by April 24
Sunday, January 27, 2008
A Great and Terrible Beauty
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by Libba Bray
Reading
Read entire novel for class on Tuesday, April 22
Commenting
1st comment on/by April 21
2nd comment on/by April 24
16 comments:
I'm sorry I'll miss the class discussions. This is a young adult book, right? However, because it's easier to read, with an simple plot structure and common vocabulary, doesn't mean that it has no literary value.
From the beginning you know that Gemma is a complex character. However, the other characters are also very complex--something which you don't expect at first. They seem to be the typical beauty, brain, and leader, but you find that there are a lot of layers to their personalities.
The corset as a piece of clothing seems to be mentioned often. I think it must be a symbol of the constraints that women were under during the Victorian era. However, I don't think these would have been the typical Victorian girls--there is just too much 20th century knowledge in their attitudes. For instance, all the talk about power.
Bray has really good visual descriptions of the realm and the menacing shadows. I wonder if she had any training in art. Her knowledge shows up in Miss Moore's art lessons also.
I would like to read the other two books in this trilogy, just to find out what happens, but I would like to read more of Erdrich first.
Jeana
Comment #2
I often wonder about the financial motives of authors. Did Bray have a burning desire to write this particular story, or did she create the supernatural and magic elements because of the success of other books such as Harry Potter. It is also a trilogy to keep her fans buying more titles. There is nothing wrong with having more than one motive; in fact, it may mean that a talented writer can also be financially savvy.
There were at least two literary allusions that I caught. The Lady of Shalott was pretty obvious, but there was also the mythological reference to eating the forbidden seed. Was it Persephone who ate the pomegranite seeds which began the seasons? I guess it could be a Biblical reference to forbidden fruit.
Miss Moore is the person who makes many insightful comments--about regrets, p. 190, light and shadow and choices, p 266. You know that there will be more to her story. Again, I don't like it when a book leaves me with unresolved details.
I didn't like Pippa's choice. I think too many teenage girls see life as black and white, not realizing the amazing variations of gray out there.
By the way, how long have cutting disorders been around? I just wondered if Bray were injecting 20th century psychological problems into a Victorian novel. I have to remember the audience, though. The insights into Ann would be very relevant to the girls reading this novel.
I really loved this class. Thanks for letting me join you. Have a great summer.
Jeana
It took me awhile to appreciate this novel. I was having trouble with the supernatural and the realms, but I got over it. I liked the portrayals of the main four girls, except I also had a problem with Pippa's end. I can see that she didn't feel like she had any other choice, she had already told Bumble her secret and she was still going to be forced to marry him, her parents wouldn't listen, she was merely a pawn to them...but still, could we not have given her another option, especially since young girls are the target audience for this novel? I would hate to give already confused adolescents the idea that there is no hope for a better life so you may as well choose to die. I think young adult readers will be able to identify with these girls. And I also like that getting married wasn't their number one concern although it was society's. However, I do wish there was some way to know if the girls escape their destinies. I would like to know if the girls end up marrying the first fool that comes along....or if Ann manages to become more than a governess...
I also kind of got the feeling that with the four and the lessons they learn, that we were getting the this is what happens to young girls without a mother speech....but maybe not. When the mother's away, the girls will lose their virtue thing. Anyways, if I had a daughter, I would give her this book....
cindy
I love these kinds of books. I read a lot of them when I was in high school. Gemma's character is great, but definitely has a lot of growing up to do. She hot-tempered with an attitude. This books is definitely more contemporary than is really fitting for the time period of where the story takes place but that's understandable for a young adult novel. This novel very clearly looks at classism and sexism. Gemma's brother Tom perfectly embodies the general gender stereotypes, believing that as a man who should hide his emotions and that women should be subserviant to men. The Spence Academy is responsible for giving these women an education almost exclusively on how to be the best wife possible. That is pretty sickening that that is all these young girls are expected to aspire to. I think this is a good thing to point out to young women about the ridiculous expectations of women. It also looks at the class hierarchies clearly represented by the girls at Spence. The girls of a higher class congregate and do not associate with girls of lower class, such as Ann. Gemma fights sexism and more clearly classism. She is able to make a bridge for Anna into the higher circle. I like the depictions of Goddesses in this novel. It is very woman-inspiring. I have about 150 pages left. I'm interested to see what happens. There is a lot of mystery in this novel. i'm not sure if she's supposed to listen to Rakshana and avoid her visions or if she should try to cultivate her power. It's not clear what the right answer is. I kind of like the little sisterhood that she made with Pippa, Felicity, and Ann but they don't seem very trustworthy, as much as their relationships have grown.
I'm going to have to pull from what Jeana said about the motives of the author and whether or not Bray was influenced by the Harry Potter series. First of all let me just say that I am a Harry Potter dork-I started reading the books when I was 12, and once you start a series, you just can't stop! That said, these are the similarities (copies?) between Harry Potter and AGATB:
-British
-setting is a boarding school
-the main character has lost his/her parent(s)
-a diary is found and read
-the main character has 'visions'
-the main character is told to 'close their mind' against the visions
-there is a nearby forest that the characters frequently wander into
-there are the snotty rich kids who think they are better than everyone else
-the main character is an important person in the "magic world"-someone that everyone has been 'waiting for'
And that is all I can remember right now...there are probably more that I'm forgetting.
Given that AGATB was published in 2003 (and assuming that Bray didn't actually write the book years before), it is hard for me to give Bray the benefit of the doubt and say that she didn't try to ride J.K. Rowlings coat tails because of the success of Harry Potter.
Not that I didn't like this book. It was an enjoyable read-good enough to finish over the weekend. I just found it to be lacking in its originality.
Any other Harry Potter nerds out there who caught the similarities?
-Elizabeth Bowman Phelps
I don’t have much doubt that this author was inspired by Harry Potter, and J. K. Rowling she’s not, but I’ve been trying to look at this book as a nice, harmless story that’s been fairly well researched, regarding its setting, and that has some good intentions. It’s a clever addition that Mary, Sarah, and Gemma come into their power when they’re sixteen, when they’re becoming women. “Forces” fear this power and want to block the girls from using it. They’re tied up in their corsets and social rules that tell them they have no power. The bit near the beginning, when Gemma remembers what her mother says about “our church” hints that “the realms” are the old religions, before Christianity, when (some) women were allowed to be leaders and acknowledged as powerful, and revered and sometimes feared because of it. That’s probably the part I like best about the book – these girls trying to bring Paganism back to Britain.
I like the fact that the four girls aren’t always very nice to each other, but, when it’s important, they stick together. Even though they say things to hurt each other, it doesn’t really change their relationships. This seems like a realistic account of women who live together, not necessarily by choice, but who make the best of their situation by clubbing together. They’re cooperating in order to survive, body and soul.
I agree with whomever said that Gemma has a bad attitude. She’s likable when she’s being kind to Ann, but other than that, I don’t think Bray did a very good job of making her a heroine. Then again, none of the other girls are especially admirable, either, so she doesn’t look bad by comparison. Maybe Bray was just trying to make them seem like typical young women.
I most definitely agree with Elizabeth about the Harry Potter similarities. It has been a while since I read the first book, but I remember that Harry felt like he was being followed for a while by a shadowy figure before he learned about where and who Voldemort was and such. There is also the similarity in classism with the Weasley's. They are constantly made fun of for their hand me downs, if I remember correctly.
Something that I wanted to mention to was that Bray alludes to how important chastity is several times in this book by way of threatening the removal of it. Gemma thinks that the Indian stranger is going to force himself upon her on a couple of occasions. I'm not really sure if this is supposed to be commentary to not travel or be by yourself at night or what, but it spoke loudly to me.
I have to say, although I started comparing this novel with Harry Potter to my friends when talking about it, I am really enjoying reading it. Although there are many similarities I still find this novel quite original and I just can’t put it down. I didn’t get to start reading it till this morning but I only have about 80 more pages to read tonight before tomorrow’s discussion. I just didn’t want to wait until 1 or 2 in the morning to post my first comment on the book. I really love the characters and the setting. It is almost like comparing Harry Potter with the women of the Victorian ages.
I really enjoy Bray’s writing style. All of the imagery of the shadows and her visions and her descriptions of what she is thinking are so vivid and clear. It’s almost as if I can close my eyes and picture what she is seeing. I feel sorry for Gemma. She didn’t ask for the powers and she is so lost and confused as to what is going on with her. At least with Harry Potter he found out everything from Hagred and was able to start making sense of it all. Gemma is left with the guilt of her mother’s death and gets scared when she drags Pippa into her vision with her. She feels like she has no control of her life and yet can’t help but feel guilty and completely responsible for her actions. Yet in another way I see her character as a very strong one, especially with the way she stands up for Ann and herself to Felicity and her entourage.
I keep wondering what this story would have been like if Gemma hadn’t accidentally discovered Felicity with the gypsy, Ithal. It’s interesting how their friendship and secret “order” come about as a result of this discovery. This is definatley starting to become another one of my favorite novels of the class.
I found this book to be one of the easiest reads of the class and I agree with Jeana's comments that just because the book has common language and a simple plot that it can still have literary value. While there are obviously a lot of similarities with Harry Potter, I think that having the story focused on teenage girls distinguishs AGATB from Harry Potter.
A couple people have posted that Gemma has a bad attitude and is not the most likeable main character, I think that Bray did this on purpose. What sixteen year old doesn't have a bad attitude? I think that high school aged readers would be able to identify more with Gemma than most of the people in our class.
Someone also posted that they noticed how Bray included the importance of being chaste. When Gemma's brother inquires if she was still chaste after their mother's murder, it seemed that he was only concerned because of what it would do to their status, not out of concern for Gemma. I think that its pretty sad that Gemma's brother would be more concerned with Gemma's social standing after her experience than her well being.
-Rachel
Well, perhaps I am tainted by my impending release from school (graduation!) but I am not totally disastisfied with this novel. It is after all, a young adult novel, and we should expect miracualous writing or intense literary content. I was just happy that I had a novel in my hands that I did not want to put down...now, I am not saying that the others novels we read weren't like this...I am just saying that I wanted to find out what happened in this novel. No, it is not as moving as The Joy Luck Club or Love Medicine, but I still think it has value. Like I said, reading this novel will hopefully spark discussion among young readers. I would like to see a group of young women read this novel and see what ideas they come up...are they going to be unhappy with Pippa's choice? will they pick up on the Victorian ideas of marriage and the woman's place? how will they feel about those ideas? how will they identify with the friendship of these four girls? I just believe, and I may be totally wrong or just mentally tired, that this novel could spark various discussions on ideas that teenage girls may not otherwise think about or contest. Anyways, I would be willing to read the other two novels, if just out of curiosity...
cindy
@ cindy: I like how you focus on the fact that it is a YA novel. Sometimes I think we do get too caught up in proving (to ourselves as well as to others) our profound literary and feminist understanding when we're analyzing a book, and, in this case, it's easy to forget the audience for which it is intended. I can't say I was crazy about this book, but I didn't hate it, either, and I probably would have liked it a whole lot more when I was about 13. Thinking about it, I don't believe we really learn that much from trying to tear down a piece of literature because it doesn't live up to our professed idealistic standards. I think you make a very good point about how this novel, "small" as it is, could prove to be a useful tool for communicating ideas between adolescents and adults. And I certainly consider it better for a young person than anything on TV.. . .
I agree that it's important to remember that this novel is intended for young adults. However it had a lot of good messages and I will definitely recomment this book to others. I appreciated it. It was a definite page-turner. It seems to be an empowering novel but gave some mixed messages. Pippa's death seemed to symobolize the hopelessness of that the patriarchy in that she didn't want to go back to a world that would control her as a sub-human, defined simply by her looks, as a mere body. Ann was along the same lines punished by the patriarchy into a sense of helpness, which was also a class issue. She channeled this hopelessness into physical abuse to herself. Felicity seemed to embody female strength in seeking power physically and psychologically and it's strange that she seems to be condemned for this when this is supposed to be a feminist novel and so it would make more sense if she was not punished for breaking the stereotypes. I also didn't like how near the end Gemma seems to come to the conclusion that the safest route was to just go along with the expectations set out for her, but she ends up not sticking to that conclusion and instead decides to hone her power. Overall I thoroughly enjoyed this book and have really enjoyed this class.
@mysticalli: yes, this was a wonderful class! The concept of "communities of women" is intriguing, and I know that from now on when I read a novel I'll be looking for them. I love how we explored what makes a community - how it certainly doesn't just mean a group of women who happen to like each other. It really got me thinking about the communities of women I've experienced personally, and what are the ties that bind us together. We can even think of our class here as our own community - based on the fact that we all signed up for this course and read the same texts. This has been one of my favorite classes at ETSU; I think we did good work, and besides, it was FUN!!!
This book was definitely an easy read and I see why it's been so popular among adults and young adults both. I still can't decide how I feel about this book and I guess if it's taking this long I should probably take it as a clue that I don't like it. I don't usually like fantasy novels but I do appreciate what Bray is trying to do from a feminist perspective. I really think she is making an earnest effort to make a feminist young adult novel but I don't really see it. I hope the young girls who read it are empowered by it though.
I think it's interesting that we ended the semester on a girl's community. I don't know why that's interesting yet. But I'll work on that for class.
Before class I didn't really tie together that we started the class with stories based in convents and were ending with a similar boarding school atmosphere and time period. I like that we were able to tie together the novels that we read this semester and find some of the common themes other than just "the community of women". Themes such as death and rebellion really did play such a role in many of the novels.
I really enjoyed reading most of the novels that we covered in class. The novel Jodi Picoult novel that I mentioned in class is called "Salem Falls". It is a pretty fast read and has some interesting ties to mythology and history, as well as deals with issues that arrise with sexual assault.
Thank you to everyone in class for making it such a nice atmosphere to be in! Hope everyone does well on finals and has a good summer!
-Rachel
So I’m not sure if you could tell in class that I didn’t get through the last 80 pages because I fell asleep reading it but I finished it now and I’m halfway though "Rebel Angels," which is the second book of the trilogy, and I can't wait to finish and read "The Sweet Far Thing" and see how it all ends! I really love this story. It is so creative and I really want to find out if Gemma and Kartik end up together. Yeah call me a sap but I’m a sucker for any kind of romance, especially when it’s mixed with fantasy and mystery!
It is really interesting how, as the story develops, I start to see the girls more and more as true friends. I’m not sure that I’d say they were truly friends at first, but they definitely continue to grow closer together as the story continues. I am a little curious as to what will happen between Gemma and Felicity, though, because the more they share Gemma’s power the more jealous Felicity gets that she can’t have the power to go to the realms by herself. I could definitely see their relationship taking a turn towards how Sarah and Mary Dowd’s relationship ended up.
I am so glad that I read all of the literature that we read in this class. I definitely have a lot of books I want to read over the summer as a result of this class! I hope you all have a great summer!!
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