by Amy Tan
REVISED CALENDAR
Presentation
J.J., Text and Context, April 8
Reading
Tuesday, April 8: First two full sections, "Feathers from a Thousand Li Away" and "The Twenty-Six Malignant Gates"
Thursday, April 10: Final two full sections, "American Translation" and "Queen Mother of the Western Skies"
Commenting
1st comment on/by April 7
2nd comment on/by April 12
Sunday, January 27, 2008
The Joy Luck Club
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18 comments:
I am really liking this novel so far. It is very intricate and gives a very different, varying points of view from these Chinese and Chinese American women. I think it's really interesting how the older generation seem to value luck over skill, luck being more respected and desirable, in some cases. This is reflected in how the Joy Luck Club invests in stock to test their luck, over their traditional game of mah jong, which they realize can be won by skill, though they do still play the game for the tradition of it. Also Waverly's mother proudly claims that Waverly has a lot of luck in chess, rather than bragging about her daughter's intense study of the "secrets" of the game. It seems that all the mothers are very superstitious and protective of their children. The Twenty Six Malignant Gates seems to fuel a lot of this fear, which talks about many of the typical dangers a child is vulnerable to. Lena's mother's fear of the world was very frightening and caused her to be unable to live her life.
I was very struck by the chapter on Ying-Ying, where she talks about her experience when she was younger, meeting the Moon Lady. It was strange how the moon lady actually turned out to be played by a man in the play, and I really didn't like how the morale of the play seemed to be that women can't take care of themselves and are inherently sinful so that they need the support and guidance of men. That message may have been instilled in Ying Ying, causing her to deny her strength and lose her identityand it was ironic that it was to that character that she wished to find herself.
I had to force myself to put this novel down so I could complete my other work. I just wanted to keep reading! I love when the mothers' superstitions turn out to be more than just mere superstition. It usually seems these ladies know what they are talking about. Like with Rose and her giving up hope and not trying to save her marriage, her mother did everything possible to find Bing, and even when Bing was not found, the mother never gave up hope, she wrote his name in light erasable pencil. Of course, we could chalk this up to denial...
I wonder why the daughters do not seem to be interested in their culture. I hope we see Jing-mei go back to China and find her siblings...intriguing.
It seems to me that this is one of the strongest and unified communities of women we have seen so far. I am loving each of the main characters and feel myself learning life lessons along with them.
Cindy
First of all, I just have to say that I absolutely love this novel. I love reading literature that gives me a whole new outlook on life that I have never gotten to experience. Being raised in America by Chinese parents and living in a mix of Chinese and American culture is certainly something I have never gotten to experience. It is interesting to read the women’s memories of their mothers, and I often find myself sympathizing with Jing-mei and the other daughters born in America because it must be hard having a mother that you never quite understood. It must be even harder still to not realize just how much you never really understood her until after her death, when it is too late to try to stop and understand more.
I also enjoy the ways that Suyuan and the other Chinese parents find to teach their daughters what they consider to be very important life lessons. Especially the stories Popo tells about melon in the girl's stomach, brains pouring out of a girl's head, and dropping the necklace down the well. It’s almost as if they speak in parables, which I find really interesting. There were several lines that I thought were just so eloquently written that I added them to my list of favorite quotes that I have created.
I like that the characters aren’t too confusing in this novel. Sometimes the Chinese words or names throw me off a little bit, but I kind of find myself wanting to learn Chinese after reading through most of this novel. It seems like a very beautiful and strong language, like the times when it is stated that a certain Chinese word has such a strong, precise meaning that there is no English word for it. I might actually enjoy this novel more than Pride and Prejudice, just because it is so unique and helps me to get some insight into a culture I know very little about.
Okay, so I've read the Joy Luck Club before, and I knew that it would probably end up being one of my favorite novels in this class... I was right. Though, I have to say, my favorite part so far is one that I hadn't really even noticed the first time I read the book. It's in the section describing why the original Joy Luck Club was founded in China. Some people thought these women were crazy for throwing banquets in the face of such terrible times, but they chose not to wait on their deaths with proper somber faces. That sentence, and I don't have my book in front of me so I can't quote it exactly, seemed to sum up for me the things that made some of the women in our novels different from those who judged them. I realize that's not very clear, so I'll try to explain. The Joy Luck women, though they accepted the reality of their current situations, never lost hope. They took control of the time they had before control was taken away from them. This is similar to the Lorimer sisters. They were expected to follow plan A after the death of their father, but instead, they went against convention, created plan B, and were much happier as a result. Similarly, the Mirabal sisters broke with convention during their participation in the revolution. Though this didn't have a happy ending, I really believe they were more satisfied in the end than they would have been had they done nothing. Even Shug says she doesn't understand why any woman would give a damn about what people think. I think this is the unifying lesson here. That we, as women, should listen to the advice of others, yes. But, in the end, we all need to make decisions based on what is right for us, not what others would like to see us do.
I have always had a love for Japanese literature, but this will do. I love how immediately you are set up with the image of a swan coming to America, yet it does not quite make it. Only the memory remains. Birds are always significant in oriental cultural, so I started tracing the images of birds throughout the text. I think they are important and will continue to be as the novel unfolds. In "Scar" for example, An-Mei Hsu and her brother are said to have "fallen out of the bowels of a stupid goose" by their grandmother Popo. Waverly says that she feels as though she is going to fly away in "Rules of the Game."
There also seems to be, like in Love Medicine, this struggle between keeping tradition and modernization or even just what is best for oneself. Waverly seems to be criticized for being to "Americanized." Lindo is also torn when faced with her arranged marriage and her promise to her mother, but she also knows to "keep the promise to herself." I agree that this community seems the strongest or the most obvious of any that we have studied thus far.
I look forward to the discussions.
Well, the wedding was a big success. They're off to Houston, and I promise to turn off my cell phone now.
I read this book when it was first published, but I haven't started it yet for this class. I'm almost through A Great and Terrible Beauty, reading ahead knowing that I'll be gone the next two weeks.
I thought you might like to know the story of a real Chinese American friend of ours. Phoebe Yee, now 84, was the oldest of nine children and immigrated to San Francisco with her parents. Her father became a successful owner of 3 grocery stores, but Phoebe, speaking English, was the main negotiator and hands-on manager of the business. Her father gave the business to his sons (who later ruined the business) because Phoebe was a woman.
He arranged a marriage for Phoebe with a much older man who had an insurance business. She had 3 children in quick succession; then her husband had a dehabilitating stoke. A woman was not allowed to be the manager of an insurance business at that time, so she would continually work saying that she was following the instructions of her husband. She is a very wealthy woman, and now owns property in Las Vegas, CA, and Houston.
At the age of 70, she remarried; at the age of 79, she told him to get out because he was living off her income and she moved to Las Vegas to start a new life.
We see her every time we're in Las Vegas for meetings. She is tiny, her hair kind of looks like a troll doll, and we sometimes have to remind her to take out her hair rollers. When Molly was in LV for a convention, she negotiated the LV traffic, met Molly at her hotel and took her to dinner. There are so many interesting people in this world!
Jeana
I think this novel is an interesting perspective on women's communities as shaped by generations. The women of the Joy Luck Club have an obvious bond and an obvious community. Their community is based on one of similar experience and common backgrounds. However, my favorite community is the web of women that spans generations. I love the community between the mothers and the daughters and the way that intersects. And I think ultimately the novel is about generational gaps and how the culture of a time period shapes identity.
I liked the observation someone made about the fact that the mothers see any kind of talent as good fortune, for example with Mrs. Jong and Waverly. I loved that chapter and the "art of invisible strength" motif.
I like this chapter because the mother and daughter seem the most at odds. They have what seems like an adversarial relationship defined mostly by their power struggle and neither can see the other's perspective. But ultimately, I think the mother and daughter are more alike than generational gaps would have them seem and that's what's so interesting to me in this novel. The daughters separate themselves or reject their mothers but ultimately that separation just reveals their likeness to their mother.
One more interesting thing I see in the novel besides the tension between mother and daughter is the tension between Chinese tradition and ambitions for the American ideals. The mothers, while they imposes strict standards of Chinese tradition on their daughters also force them into an American dream of success, like Waverly and her chess skills and Jing-mei and the piano.
phaedra
Wow thats a great story about your friend! How cool is she to start over so many times and move to Vegas! Ha I think she has more guts than me! ....anyway about the Joy Luck Club, I've really enjoyed reading it so far. I saw the movie a few years ago, but It's such a great story that I don't mind reading it even though I remember a lot about the movie.
Caitlin mentioned that she really liked the part of the book that explains why the Joy Luck Club was founded. I also really like this part of the book because of the way Tan explains how strong the women were.
-Rachel
I’m reading this novel at the same time we’re doing Tony Kushner’s play, “Angels in America” for the drama survey course. I’ve been alternating between the two, which gives new perspectives on both works that I hadn’t seen when I read them before. At the beginning of the latter, maybe even on the first page, a Jewish rabbi performing a funeral service states that there is no such place as America. That really made me think about the mother/daughter relationships in our book. America was an idea in the heads of the women from China; it’s summed up in the fable of the swan at the beginning. Like Dr. Cajka said, the mothers wanted their daughters to maintain the “good” parts of being Chinese while enjoying the “good” parts of living in America. The fact that (nearly) all Americans are descended from “immigrants” lends weight to the rabbi’s summation of our country. The idea of America as an illusion that the women from China brought with them and tried make real through their daughters is intriguing; it’s difficult enough for a daughter to live up to all her mother’s hopes, even if one’s family isn’t especially “foreign”. Anyway, this is something I’ve been trying to work out in my head and what I’ve written isn’t exactly what I meant to say, but it’s pretty close. If anyone else has insight into this idea, I’d love to hear/read it.
Well, it really makes a difference when you have actually read the assignment! I loved the discussion in class and it was really helpful to me to have the structure of the novel laid out before I started reading. I think this is a wonderful book, and I was surprised that Love Medicine encouraged Tan's writing. I think this book surpasses Erdrich's novel in literary quality and in intelligibility. Perhaps it is the in-depth generational insights that are so appealing in this book--I think I might appreciate Love Medicine more if I read Tracks. The book was really poignant to me--I have been on both sides of this struggle between generations.
I especially loved the line in the fable of the swan "This feather may look worthless, but it comes from afar and carries with it all my good intentions." I think that really sums up the feelings of mothers toward daughters (and sons), unwavering love in spite of mistakes on both sides.
The characters' references to religion are very interesting, particularly the loss of faith by An-mei. The four families seem to all be converts to Christianity, yet they maintain many of the folk customs and superstitions of their old religion. I belong to a really serious book club where one month we read what could only be called a "textbook" about the evolution and adaptation of Christianity in South America and Africa as the different cultures maintain a lot of their old beliefs. I suspect a lot of the beliefs of fervent Southern Appalachian groups would be unrecognizable to the early Christians as well.
The humor in Jing-mei story was so clever, but had some pathos too. I felt that I was right on the piano stool with her.
A digression--We saw an interview with Jonathan and Faye Kellerman, husband and wife mystery writers whose books I have read (some of them--they've written over 100). He told of an interviewer who complimented him on his writing skills and asked if he had ever thought of writing a literary novel. Mr. K said ,"Oh, you mean something without a plot?"
Jeana
I really enjoy The Joy Luck Club. I read it years ago...too long ago to actually remember anything, though! I also remember that a couple times excerpts from the book showed up in English/Reading portions of comprehensive exams (like those stupid TCAPS...for you Tennesseeans).
I always love stories about mothers and daughters. The relationships are almost always tense and less than perfect. However, I think that for the most part mothers really do have good intentions.
When reading about mother-daughter relationships, I can't help but think of my own mother. There are times when she will give her un-asked for opinion (it's a mom thing) or do other things that just irk me! Plenty of times we have been driving home from my parents house and I'll vent to my husband about my MOTHER! Then one day I realized...this woman has done so much more for me in the past 21 years than I'll ever be able to do for her. So i began to see my mother differently and I TRY to not let her irk me (and to not irk her in return). I think it was a good realization that plenty of people need to come to-your mother has sacrificed plenty for you so be nice! So yeah...I love my mommy.
Anyways, I think that is what I like best about this book-it is about mothers and daughters.
Also, I was surprised to learn that Amy Tan was actually influenced by Love Medicine. The reason being that I had never heard of LM until this class, and I knew about Joy Luck Club when I was very young. I suppose she must have done a better job than Erdrich...?
Elizabeth Bowman Phelps
I love authors who master the use of the cryptic expression. The phrase Cindy mentioned about Bing’s death written in “erasable pencil”. Those two words open up paragraphs of feelings—hope or denial from the mother, empathy from the reader. How about “twice-used Macy’s bag”? The reader understands a lifetime of economy of the mother.
The chapter about the on-going chess game of emotional strategies between the Jong mother and daughter was humorous and touching, but not surprising, when you remember the mother’s dream strategy in the red candle chapter. Tan’s wording is so descriptive when she analyzes the mother-- “a wok for her armor, a knitting needle for her sword.”
I loved everything about Rose Hsu’s chapter “Without Wood”, especially the mothers insistence on her listening to “her” and not other people because their words ”came from the bottom of their hearts, where their own desires lived”. The analogy between a young girl and a tree on p. 191 is stated so well, and I love it when Rose repeats her mother’s words and tells Ted that he “can’t just pull me out of your life and throw me away.”
What a wonderful chapter to end the book. I do like a book with closure! The paragraph on p. 286 about the different ways we leave people really got to me. I guess I am especially teary because of the recent wedding—the friends who chose to travel for miles to attend, and the family that couldn’t attend because they are no longer with us.
A personal thought after finishing the book: I would like to think that I have been one of these “Chinese” mothers. All of my children have gone through a “hate Mom, love Mom” stage, ending with the love. They are all successful and honorable due to their own nature, but also the nuture from their Dad and me which included many scoldings, lectures, hugs, unconditional love, but not unconditional approval. I cannot express the relief and the loneliness that comes from having an empty nest!
Jeana
I liked how in the end we get the sense that the daughters are learning to appreciate their heritage and integrate it into their lives. The mothers seem to be learning from the daughters as well, especially Lindo with her daughter's acceptance of their nose and she of course gets a new haircut.
I like the story about the turtle. I think it is an important lesson that tears do not wash away sorrow, but feed someone else's joy (as was demonstrated in what resulted in her tears: laughing birds). This says something about the power of inner strength that An-Mei and Rose have trouble relying on. This could be said of all the women at some point in their life story,actually.
The parable at the beginning of Queen Mother of the Western Skies is quite telling, as are all the parables, but I liked this one the best. The thought that to recognize evil you have to become evil, is an interesting notion, but not what I think it is getting at. I think it is saying that in order to truly understand someone you have to walk a mile in their shoes, but to at least try to understand someone, you have to know their secrets. That's one of the things I loved most about this book. It was like peeling an onion at times; layers of contextual meaning that you have to really dig into to get. Sometimes it took me several readings and a lot of reflection, but when I think I got something she was trying to do or say, it was worth it!
I really enjoyed this novel. I only wish we could have more time to spend on it. I don't think we did it justice. I loved seeing the mothers learn from their daughters as well as desperately try to teach their daughters through these stories they would tell...like the turtle and the tears. If only children would listen to their parents...for the most part anyway...only in hindsight do you see just how much your parents know. I almost felt as though I was learning life lessons from these women as well...which is quite probable since I am the same age as the daughters! Although Rose did start out as a weak woman, we have to consider what she went through with losing Bing and this is what prompted her to be incapable of making decisions. That one split second when she made the decision to send him away and not pay attention cost him his life and she is primarily responsible, so she feels uncomfortable making decisions throughout life, at least until she notices that Ted is trying to just throw her away. I love the scene we talked about when she finally rises and speaks up for herself. Sometimes, we just have to be in the right situation in order to become the women we want to be.
Cindy
On Tuesday, Dr. Cajka mentioned symbols to look for and among them was food, so I tried to concentrate on that “ingredient” when I read the second half of the novel. Food as an important symbol makes sense – after all, we have to eat; it’s not a choice. (well, I guess it is, but the only alternative is death, so. . .) I found so many food images that, to be honest, I got tired of marking them with little yellow sticky tabs and some went un-tabbed. Lena uses food (as we talked about in class) to try to control her destiny, first, by finishing her rice, then by throwing away food in order to wish leprosy on Arnold. Then she uses it in the classic anorectic way, hoping to gain control of her life by controlling her body. Her main problems with Harold start with splitting the restaurant tabs down the middle. I think one of the most significant food issues is when Waverly clearly states that cooking was how her mother expressed love, pride, and power. That hit home for me, because that’s so what my own mother does. She can’t bring herself to tell her daughters that she loves them, but we’re not in her house five minutes before she’s trying to feed us, and not allowed to leave without leftovers (like Lindo, she can’t stand to see food thrown away). Oh, and Lindo brought her marriage about with a fortune cookie! (Wasn’t the whole cookie-factory thing just hilarious – this woman from China didn’t know what fortune cookies were! Kind of makes us look stupid, but it was funny, anyway.) When An-Mei’s mother brings her to live with her, she spends a great deal of time telling An-Mei about all the strange and wonderful foods she will encounter in her new life. Food is used here as both an enticement and a reward. Then her mother kills herself and empowers An-Mei through eating the poison dumplings. Finally, there’s the whole big crab thing between Suyuan and Jing-Mei. Here, their reactions to food shows their similarly generous, considerate natures. It also shows Waverly’s selfishness and pettiness. There’s more instances of food in the text, but I think that’s enough for now. I’m sure there are just as many in the first half – next time I read it, I’ll have to have my post-its ready. We don’t have a “second-favorite” choice on our vote tally, but if we did, I think this would be mine. And if anyone hasn’t seen the movie – you gotta. I don’t even like movies and I’ve watched this one probably 20-30 times, and rereading the book has put me in the mood to watch it again. Beware, though, unless you’re made of steel, you’ll probably cry like Tammy Faye Baker – I know I do.
These second blog posts are always the hardest for me.
I loved the novel like everyone else did. Amy Tan has a very subtle writing technique. She's an extraordinary writer but she doesn't hit you over the head with it. Someone writers are so good at what they do that the writing is all you think about. Amy Tan doesn't distract the reader in that way and I think that's a challenge.
I love the way she uses humor to cut or maybe even dilute the heavy thematic elements. What I also found interesting though is that often times we find humor in the broken english of one of the mothers, but that broken english actually conveys volumes more than the grammatical correct english.
Thematically, I think this was my favorite novel after The Color Purple.
phaedra
Well I believe this is now my favorite novel of the class. I really enjoyed learning about these relationships between the daughters and their mothers and all of the lessons that they learn from each other. I also enjoyed learning a little more about the Chinese culture and language.
Lindo and Waverly were my favorite mother and daughter couple. I enjoyed seeing the ways that they found to compare Chess to their everyday life. Their relationship included a lot of symbolism, which I love! I also thought it was interesting how they saw the wind as the invisible strength and played on how "everything starts from the east."
Although Lindo and Waverly were my favorite characters, my favorite part of the book was when Rose finally stood up to Ted and found her strength. I love when women realize their inner strength- that's the best thing about being a woman!!
Like Lauren, I also really liked the relationship between Lindo and Waverly. They both seemed to be very strong-minded. I thought their relationship was very interesting, how Waverly felt like her feelings could be so controlled by her mother. I could relate to her feeling like someone else's disapproval can poison how you feel about someone. There seemed to be so much tension between them. It was very unfortunate how threatened Waverly felt by what her mother thought, thinking that she would have to manipulate her mother into liking Rich. I loved her discription of how she felt for Rich. She made him sound unimaginably perfect, before it goes into the flaws she sees after his meeting Lindo. But I loved how they seemed to come to an understanding in the end when Waverly realizes that her mother still loves, just always wants the best for her and wants to be able to relate to her. An-Mei's and Rose's stories were not very uplifting. They both had problems living their lives for themselves, having to deny their own desires to get by as best they could. Ying Ying and Lena were both very dark with their outlook, and their vivid imaginations. I liked how Jing-Mei was able to understand her mother, to find their connection. That was very deep. This is such a great novel. I loved all the mother-daughter relationships.
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