by Margaret Atwood
REVISED CALENDAR
Presentation
Rachel, Text and Context, April 15
Reading
Tuesday, April 15: Chapters 1-23
Thursday, April 17: Chapters 24-57 (end of novel)
Commenting
1st comment on/by April 14
2nd comment on/by April 19
Sunday, January 27, 2008
The Robber Bride
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18 comments:
I know that I will be gone for the last two books, so I am trying to read ahead and post my blogs early.
I had read Margaret Atwood before, The Handmaid's Tale years ago, can't remember much about it, except that it dealt with women's freedom issues and was futuristic.
A few years ago, I read the Blind Assassin, can't remember much about the plot--I think it was a little bizarre-- but I was really beginning to treasure language. I came across words I didn't know, and imagery that was so expressive, really poetic.
I am finding that same beautiful language in this book, but I am also enjoying the plot. I can't wait to find out what Zenia did to the three main characters and what they are going to do to her.
I am also finding a lot of humor in this book. I can't remember that in Atwood's other books, but it may be my memory. I laughed out loud when Toni was talking about Ethel muttering "pisspisspiss". I was raised by a mother who thought "Golly and Gosh" were inappropriate, so when I'm really upset about something, I get in the shower and say "shitshitshit". My husband and children finally began to understand that I wasn't upset with anyone except myself. It's turned into a family joke.
It's hard to read any paragraph in the novel without seeing the craftmanship which has gone into the writing. I think this book might meet Lori Ann's definition of literature, the book as a work of art. I wonder if Atwood is a history fan or if she does a tremendous amount of research. I'm so sorry that I'll miss the presentation about her.
The three main characters are so well-defined, I feel as if I know them. Atwood is an artist with words.
Jeana
Comment #2
What a great book. I think I identified so much with it because I grew up in the same era. The characters seemed to be WW II babies, but I am one of the first baby-boomers, right after the war. Each of the characters had an incident with Zenia during a different decade, and I have been through all those decades and remember them well.
What an imagination Atwood has! I could never have dreamed up a character like Toni who studies war and is ambidextrous to the point of writing backwards and who thinks she has that ability because of a lost twin. In fact, all the main characters had another self: Charis/Karen and Catholic/Jewish Roz.
Atwood really brings her characters, even her minor characters, to life--the grandmother, the parents, the boarders, Boyce, the twins, etc.
All of the main characters had unbelievably difficult childhoods. I found that a little difficult to believe, but even more incredulous was their devotion to men who were such jerks and their passivity in their relationships.
Atwood is so witty. It is kind of a sly, understated wit, i.e., Toni's lecture on fly-front openings in war. She also plays with words , i.e., when one of Roz's uncles mispronounces pistache ice cream and Roz identifies with pastiche, a spoof or parody of her life. (I had to look that up!)
Zenia remains a mystery to the end. You never know her real story, or why she is so cruel. She is highly intelligent and intuitive, knowing exactly where each of her friends is most vulnerable.
I had to look up the Feenians, too, from Charis' grandmother's story. I knew they were Irish-Americans, but I didn't know that they invaded Canada 3 times trying to take over the country so that the English would declare Ireland an independent nation.
Jeana
This novel moves kinda slow for me. I would like to know what Zenia has done to these women at this point. I can kinda figure it out from context clues, but I mean, I'm over a third in and I really don't have a firm grasp on it?
I like Tony probably the best just because I'm an academic as well. I can identify with having a guy think of you as a friend and having a vixen girlfriend because you are smart.
Roz's character intrigues me, especially the mother side. I'm curious to find out what Zenia did to her and her relationship to make her as bitter as she is. Her thoughts on business are interesting as well.
Charis (Karen) seems a bit out there to me. Of course that is because I don't really believe in crystals and tarot cards and the like. She does add something to the dynamic of the circle of friends, though.
The way the first part is set up (hearing the same story from different perspectives) reminds me of The Group. Also the fact that the girls met in college and the plot centers around one woman (Kay/Zenia)is something they share.
I hope this picks up the pace a little, though. I like detail and all, but my curiosity is getting the better of me.
I enjoy Atwood's novels. It seems like they always make perfect sense in the end, even though you have to wait for it.
I think this novel illuminates Lori Ann's previous point about women bringing each other down with petty competition. Zenia is the epitome of a woman-woman bond killer. It seems like she is incapable of letting any other woman be happy. She just must get her hands on their mate--if only just to prove that she can. This is the feel I am getting from her so far anyway. I hate those kind of women--or men--who see the other sex as mere conquests, or notches to add to their belt.
Also, I think it is interesting how the three women seem to be strong and armed against Zenia when together, but when they are alone they are weak and each get hurt and sucked into her vicious web. Guess women should learn to stick together. It is also interesting how each of the three represent different elements of time. Obviously, Tony is the past with her love of war history. Charis is the present, she doesn't wish to dwell on the hurtful past, want to live in the now. And Roz is the future, she is always making plans. Anyways, I guess we will see where it goes.
Cindy
I agree with many of the comments that have been posted about this novel. This was my first experience reading a novel by Margaret Atwood and I was so impressed by the way she conveys feelings. I love how complex the Robber Bride is and the way that the characters go back and forth in their histories. I agree with the comment that was made about knowing the characters Tony, Charis and Roz. We learn their feelings, thoughts and flaws. I found the stories about their childhood, particuarly Tony and Charis to be heartbreaking, explained a lot about the adults that they become. I think that it is interesting to see how the relationships of the main characters develop through time and how they support each other after Zenia has burned them.
I'm really glad this is my book to present and am interested to hear the opinions of Zenia.
-Rachel Layer
I'm not a fan of Atwood. I don't like her writing style. I don't really like her characters. I don't like her observations...
And I can't seem to stay away from her. This was the 5th work by Margaret Atwood that I've read and like the others... I had trouble putting it down, even though I very nearly hated it.
I guess I'm a masochistic reader.
So...I HATE Tony; she is the most annoying character in a book EVER! Okay, maybe that's an overstatement... I'm sure there's a character modeled after Hitler somewhere in a novel and I'd probably find him more annoying than Tony... maybe
I didn't like Charis/Karen until parts of her history started to unravel. Her convoluted history with Zenia was definitely intriguing and her past is my favorite of all three.
I love Roz, but I can't stop imagining Roz from Frasier whenever she talks and that's unnerving. Stupid TV. I also don't quite understand her job/firm.
I'm also really sick of reading about child abuse. I feel like it's become such a hackneyed theme in literature and yes to some extent I think that just mirrors it's shocking prevalence in society.
But it seems like so often it's no longer used as a theme to raise awareness about the issue; it's just there... seemingly to just get women interested and tug at their heart strings.
I don't need my heart strings tugged at by gratuitous scenes of child abuse. And since it doesn't function in the novel after the scene occurs; I don't see the point of it's presence there at all.
I just think that at the point when a child abuse scene/theme/whatever fails to serve an actual function in the novel, it becomes exploitative of the issue.
I dunno. I'm getting angry. I should stop writing. Blah.
phaedra
I really like all three of these women. They’re all a bit odd in their own private ways, but Atwood has the talent to make them seem especially authentic despite this oddness. I’m enjoying Tony’s quirkiness, especially the reading backwards, and how she gives new meanings to the words based on the way they sound in reverse. I imagine those parts were a lot of fun to write. And she doesn’t seem to think that anyone owes her anything; she tells her history to Zenia because Zenia keeps pushing her to, not because she’s trying to win sympathy. I like Roz because she’s kind and I enjoy the ways in which she indulges herself. Also, she doesn’t seem at all arrogant over her successes. She’s probably the one I have the most trouble “picturing”; the descriptions are somewhat contradictory – not that it really matters, I suppose, but it’s a habit. I like Charis’ (sometimes humorously endearing) spirituality (is anyone else thinking of Phoebe from “Friends”?). In spite of the fact that I’m sure I’d love to join this group for lunch, I don’t like the way they seemed so obsessed with the men in their pasts (or, in Tony’s case, her present). I realize that this is a (sadly) realistic depiction of how many women are about their boyfriends/husbands, but it’s no fun to read, and it makes me lose respect for the characters.
It’s interesting and different that, although these three knew each other at university, their real community is based on the woman who obviously hurt them all. I think we’ve all probably known a Zenia, or several. So long as an author (or any other person) doesn’t attempt to make me feel compassion for the “emptiness they must be feeling which drives them to these cruel but pathetic attempts to feel powerful, etc. etc.” then I’m okay with reading about them, though I want nothing to do with them in real life. Like Charis, I’m wary of toxic vibes.
I am finally starting to enjoy reading this novel more. It just seemed like it started off, and continued, at a slow pace. It was definately a little hard to get into. The more I read it, however, the more I like it. I love the characters that Atwood has created. They are all so extremely unique and yet in a way they seem to complete each other. I often found myself reading some of the little character descriptions Atwood put in, like how Tony graded papers, and just thought how would an author think to write about that. She really is an artistically creative writer.
Zenia's character is very interesting. At first I absolutely hated her, because I hate girls that act like her in reality. But the more I read the novel the more I begin to see her as a literary figure and I start to like her a little bit. I found this really strange. I guess I just think that in some ways she is what holds this story together. It is all three of the women's memories of her that bring them together and her memory seems to control their lives also, such as their relationships with their husbands. In a way she seems to play a defining absence role, and I just can't completely hate her. This novel will certainly be interesting to study in class!
I am really enjoying this novel so far. I had some negative expectations since I've been warned that it's a difficult, often frustrating and tedious read. So far I've thought it is very interesting. I love the contrast between the characters. I most relate with Charis. She is introverted and spiritual. The relationship between Charis and her daughter is interesting. They seem to be almost opposites where Charis seems to have more of a flowing, individualist personality and her daughter is more hard and polished. Their strained relationship reminds me of the mother-daughter relationships in The Joy Luck Club, by their struggle in relating to one another. I really like Shanita, Charis's mentor. She seems strong and enlightened. Charis's ability to read people's auras is very intriguing. I kind of like how Charis is portrayed as "soft", being highly sensitive to feeling, like in her tension over any form of brutality. This contrasts stongly with Tony, who seems to relish in knowledge on brutality, being an professor on the history of war.
I love this novel. One more time, I love this novel. Actually, I made it "facebook official" today when it worked its way into my "favorite books" section. As somebody else mentioned, we really get a cross-section of the different personalities of the women in this novel, and I think there is a little part of me who can identify with all of them. I see myself in Charis, in the way she's always taking home merchindise from the store instead of a paycheck, in how she's spiritual and (in a word my dad used to describe me just a few days ago) "new-agey", but especially in the way that she feels things so intensely. I also see Tony as my future self. I'm not really intending to harden as I age, but I can see myself in a similar position, especially as far as careers and schedules are concerned. We already have some of the same habits (like waking up early to work). I don't see myself being as emotionally tied to a relationship as Tony though. It sort of bothered me that such an otherwise strong woman would feel so insecure about the prospect of losing her man.
I also found it a bit strange that these women don't exactly seem to be what I would call "friends". They have common history. They went to the same university, and they've all had similar experiences with Zenia. They seem to be united by these things more than real friendship. Did anybody else think this was odd, or was it just me?
Well I don't know that i can say I LOVE this book, but I certainly don't hate it. It really is a bit of a frustrating read because it takes awhile before you actually figure out what Zenia has done to make these women hate her so much. However, I went into this book with high hopes because I absolutely LOVE The Handmaid's Tale so I figured another book by Atwood was sure to be a hit. I also think it is really interesting how Atwood uses fairytale motifs. So overall...not too bad.
-Elizabeth Bowman Phelps
Caitlin asked if anyone thought that it was odd that the women in this book would be considered friends. I don't think that it's odd that they become so close due to a common history. I think that many friendships are because of similar experiences and hardships. The fact that the women are so different from each other makes their friendship interesting. I think that it would be really interesting to walk by a restaurant and see a group of women that look so different from each other sitting at a table having lunch the way Tony, Roz and Charis do.
There were things about each women that I really liked and disliked. I hate how they are all so fooled by Zenia, especially Roz because she knew what Zenia did to the other women. However, I think that while Zenia did damage all of the women to a certain point, she also helped them.
-Rachel
The more I think about it, the more I lean more toward liking Zenia. She is the sole person who taught these women to quit acting like fools for their men. She is the one who showed them just what their men were made of, especially Roz and Charis. Of course, Tony stays with West, but before she confronts Zenia in the hotel, she is so terrified of losing West that she won't even mention Zenia's name around him. Noone should behave like that for a man--or a woman. Zenia empowers these women to live their life without the fear (Tony) or without the man (Roz/Charis). She also gets them to acknowledge what they already know but are afraid to see. Of course, she is still a liar and all that, but aren't we all to some extent? I can see a little bit of Zenia in myself, which is what I believe she wanted to show the three women. So, I personally don't end the novel hating her, or feeling sorry for her, but just kinda understanding her I guess. I am not sure if the men thing is Atwood's main point, in fact I am certain it is not, but upon first reading, this is the main idea I came out with....Don't be a fool! Join the dark side! Or at least acknowledge that there is one...in all of us. Overall I like this novel, but I would recommend A Handmaid's Tale if someone asked for an Atwood novel.
Cindy
I'm not sure I agree that Zenia empowered these women. I can see where that statement is coming from, since the women were harshly thrown into reality and therefore had to step up to make it through. However, I don't believe that this excuses Zenia for the amount of pain she caused Tony, Charis, and Roz. She seemed to do it for purely selfish, cruel reasons. She hurt these women for an ego-boost, knowing that she could make herself more desirable to their boyfriends and husbands. She broke these women to make herself feel powerful, making the three women feel inferior and lost. She took advantage of the three women, and likely all of the other people she came in contact with. I greatly disliked Zenia. Tony, Charis, and Roz went for years in such emotional turmoil over the damage she caused that I can't appreciate Zenia. Her death makes a kind of sense of relief. It's great that the three main women were able to grow stronger and gain a closeness with themselves for who they are (I really like that theme)from their experiences with Zenia but that, in my opinion, certainly does not redeem Zenia.
Allison
I liked this book a little more after our discussion on Thursday. It was hard to make sense of it all but after we fleshed out some themes and "allegorical meanings," I was able to appreciate was Atwood was trying to do.
I do think the women are friends by the end of the novel. I think especially when both Charis and Tony are comforting Roz there is a clear unity and friendship among the women.
And while Zenia isn't part of that friendship, I certainly consider her part of the women's community, maybe even the most important part.
The fact that she represents what the women lack reminds me of the defining absence concept we've talked about. Zenia is important, not because she is absent, but because she represents what is absent in the women... It's kind a reverse defining absence.
Anyways... sorry it's 12:15. I'm 15 minutes past deadline. Oh well.
phaedra
I just thought this was a really enjoyable book that I'll probably like even more the next time I read it because of our discussions. I especially liked looking at all the structured patterns in the 3 women. I probably wouldn't have realized the "past, present, future" thing, and definitely not the "small, medium, large" idea if they hadn't come up on the blog (go, Cindy!) and in class (I would say ‘go, Dr. Cajka’, but that seems inappropriate). I think it's amazing how Atwood can so carefully plan and orchestrate such a huge (and not just in length) story. One thing lit classes do for me is remind me of a lot of other books I want/need to read, so now I’ll have to be on the lookout for more work by this author. Oh, and I'm purposely posting this half a day late so Phaedra won't feel bad about only being 15 minutes late. Is that sisterhood or what?
I think I forgot to make my second comment on this novel....
I think that Atwood is extremely purposeful in everything she writes, and this is seen throughout the novel. I love the depictions of the fragmented self, the blown up bodies, and then there is the story of "The Robber Bride" to tie it all together. That was one of my favorite themes and symbols to look for in the novel, and I often did not link images into this until well after I read it. Atwood makes you think about her novel long after you are done. I'm still thinking about it.
I really liked how the women were over-the-top. I thought they were caricatures to make her point of how ridiculous the patriarchy can make women seem. As in, they might not act in an extreme manner if it were not for outside forces having a hand in every single realm of their "world."
All in all, I ended up liking the novel more than I thought I was going to.
I think I keep forgetting to post my second responses after I type them up in Word. Man I hate the end of the semester when classes get crazy!!
Anyways, I ended up liking this novel more than I thought I would. I always end up liking our novels more after we discuss them in class. All of you seem to bring up so many points that I had never thought about and then the novel seems a bit more interesting than I had thought it was. All of the stuff we talked about in class about war being a major theme of the novel and the sizes of the women and their various roles were all aspects of the novel that hadn't occurred to me.
This was certainly an interesting read. As I was reading I was a little shocked at how different this novel was than the novels we have been reading. Zenia's character was definitely extremely different from any other we have read about in class. It was interesting how at first we saw her as being somewhat against the community of women that formed as a result of her schemes, but then towards the end we saw her more as helping the community of women to realize and reach their full potential. Overall, this was an interesting novel with well-crafted underlying meanings.
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